Talk:Scrapper

Stats for scrapper (and other archetypes)

Now that we're given stats for each archetype, as seen here (for the Scrapper):

Is there a way to draw this using wiki code rather than inserting pics?  :3 Sera404 02:14, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

There is, at least, one way of doing it. Over on the Ouroboros Portal, Jezebel1669 created a couple of handy templates that seem close to what we'd be looking for:

• HeroAttributes
• VillainAttributes

It probably wouldn't be too difficult to create a template that uses a similar format and gets pretty close to the new stat format. --Eabrace 03:22, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

I dunno, I think I got it pretty good by using a little Photoshop magic.  :-) -- Blondeshell 21:07, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

There are several different bars however that don't quite match up once you add in the second image... also, there aren't many things on the Wiki from what I have seen that do use an image where text could work just as well. Just my take, I would opt for a nice template over a past in on every page of the main article of an AT... perhaps that information can be worked into the side-bar that already exists for every AT as it is? --Thirty7 21:20, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

I'd rather see us present the information in text. There's no need for us to reproduce the information using the exact same graphical means as they do in game. If we must keep it in a graphical form, I recommend at the very least making it smaller, it looks pretty huge on the page to me. But I honestly think something text-based and simple would work best, perhaps in the infobox as Thirty7 suggests. -- Sekoia 21:57, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

So I twiddled around for a while with {{Stats}} first in my off-site wiki then a little bit here, but I can't figure out how to force each stat line to go the full 11 column width (stat then 10 pips) - so that when the line is, for instance, "surivability 7", boxes 8-10 blank out. So instead I introduced a third parameter for lines less than 10 that don't fill the whole bar, to show how many boxes should be empty after the bar. Only the top line needs to have the third parameter, which fixes all of the subsequent boxes. (If we could figure out a way to do this without the third parameter, that would be awesome. I *think* there *is* a way but damned if I can think of something.) ~ AGGE talk/cons 23:32, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

The third parameter is no longer needed, it's automatically determined now. -- Sekoia 00:07, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

{{Stats Start}}
{{Stats|Survivability|7}}
{{Stats|Melee Damage|10}}
{{Stats|Ranged Damage|2}}
{{Stats|Crowd Control|4}}
{{Stats|Support|2}}
{{Stats|Pets|2}}
|}

The above was formerly transcluded, but I disabled that due to template changes. -- Sekoia 18:00, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

(I didn't use HeroAttributes and VillainAttributes because those templates utilize umpteen zillion different templates that my template does with two.) ~Agge

Soooo, is a template like this going to be put into use? It is vastly preferable to the mismtatched PNGs that are currently in use for this purpose. My only suggestion would be to make Agge's Template a bit wider. —Thirty7 06:34, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Suggestion

I began messing around with a non-Templated version of the above as a suggestion for the finished product. To make it a tad more visually appealing (though that is somewhat unnecesary) I propose making each bar a color that represents the AT symbol that typifies that role, Melee Damage is yellow for Scrapper, Control is purple for the Controller/Dominator, etc.

Also, perhaps a better way to go about making that template is to not follow the info-box model of having a seperate line that can be added for each thing, but instead following the {{Character}} Template as used on the Ouro Wiki in which the lines are pre-specified... after all, everytime this template is used, it will have the same number of lines, and that means it would all be contained in a single Template.

Scrapper Stats
Stat	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10
Survivability	7
Melee Damage	10
Ranged Damage	2
Crowd Control	4
Support	2
Pets	2

—Thirty7 07:20, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Okay... so after several hours, I have the above worked into a Template on the OuroWiki. It works just fine except for an issue with an extra column on a 10 line that I can't seem to figure out. It works with the following code, which I think is a more editor friendly way to go about it (as I suggested above).

{{Stats37
| survive =
| melee =
| ranged =
| control =
| support =
| pets =
}}

—Thirty7 08:11, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

I generally prefer to use longer option names so that the meaning is more self-evident. It's not necessarily going to be immediately clear to the next editor who comes along what one letter codes like "c" and "r" stand for. Sure, it can be figured out -- but something like "crowd=" and "ranged=" are going to be far more intuitive and will much reduce the odds of mistakes or misinterpretation. I'm also not sure I'm a fan of making each bar a different color. It's not going to be immediately obvious to many people what those colors represent, which means it's going to be interpreted as a rainbow for the sake of being a rainbow. You'd have to add text explaining what those colors mean, but at that point, it's no longer worth it. I personally find them to be distracting. However, all that said, I do agree that it'd be better to consolidate this into a single master template. This will always be used in the same format with the same set of parameters. It's going to have a consistent look and feel across all articles that use it. A single template is more appropriate than per-line templates. -- Sekoia 10:41, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

It is exceedingly easy to change ALL of those things, and I generally agree with your assesments. Should I go ahead and make the changes in the Wiki Template Agge created? Or make them in the OuroWiki version to be put over here later? —Thirty7 07:49, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

I made the appropriate changes to the template on the Ouro using Agge's color above for the bars... the above graph has been altered to show what the new version looks like. Unfortunately, I still don't have the 10 bar figured out. I can't for the life of my figure out what is different between the code you wrote to fix Agge's and what is in mine... all that was changed was an extra alignment parameter and an exclamation was changed over for a pipe. *shrugs* —Thirty7 08:16, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Finally figured out what the problem was with the Template I had drawn up... I am going to go ahead and edit the {{Stats}} Template and put the new format into use now, as always, if there are issues feel free to revert changes and/or alter the Template. If you do though, it would be great if you comment here or on my Talk page so I know what the issue was/is.  :) —Thirty7 17:49, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

I recommend creating a new template on PW for this, maybe named {{ATStats}}. Using Stats is a bit too general/generic IMO, I recommend we delete that and the other related templates. I'm also in support of seeing it deployed across the various AT pages to replace the current image-based stat bars. -- Sekoia 17:57, 7 December 2011 (UTC) (As an aside, my edit comment for this said I was adding "two replies". That's wrong... I had an edit conflict with Thirty7, and discovered the change removed the need for my other reply. So there's no second reply to be found. Oops. -- Sekoia 18:03, 7 December 2011 (UTC))

Hmmmm, I had considered making it {{ATStats}}, but I (and apparently Agge too) just went through and took care of changing over to the aforements Stats template... maybe if another chimes in with agreement I will do so. *shrug* —Thirty7 18:29, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

(deindenting!)

I didn't see the name change recommendation - I went ahead and moved it to {{ATStats}}. All that's needed is to add two letters to the archetype pages, so it's no big deal. :) ~ AGGE talk/cons 18:31, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Paragon Market

Putting this note here, as it is as good a place as any.

I noticed that the new power sets up on Beta are all documented as being Purchased, as of yet, we have no knowledge as to whether all or any of them will be purchased (though it is likely safe to assume that most, probably all, of them will be). Does anyone else have a concern with documenting this as such? I feel it may end up misleading people, though it is a rather easy fix. Right now, we simply don't have confirmation what the Dev's intent is as far as I know. —  Talk · Cont 04:54, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Pummit commentary off-screen puts "most power sets with fancy mechanics" as paid-for sets. As these all contain "fancy mechanics", it is safe to assume they will be paid. If they change their minds, it's easy enough to remove the paid-for note.

Water Blast is paid-for for certain; I haven't been on beta yet to personally confirm whether Bio or Nature are. ~ AGGE talk/cons 05:48, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

I'd certainly assume that some of the new power-sets will be included within VIP subscription. Not necessarily these. NCsoft will be looking to ensure the VIP subscription maintains its lustre (from a marketing PoV). If we do not know, then it's simple enough to state that in the documentation, as we know (for example) we'll be checking the Bio Armour page as soon as it goes live. As it stands "VIP Players must also purchase this set." (on Bio Armor) is simply not accurate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Taosin (talk • contribs) 06:15, 23 June 2012 UTC

Agge, how can you be sure that Water is for sure a purchased set? Just because you had to buy it on the Beta server? IIRC, you have to buy pretty much all of the sets for testing on Beta, whether or not they ended up being free or not. I could be misremembering though. Regardless, I altered the PMarket Purchase template per Taosin's suggestions on that talk page. —  Talk · Cont 12:52, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

When a free-for-VIP set is introduced to Beta (e.g. the Dark sets), it is available immediately for character creation without buying it on the market, just like it is on live. Additionally, the only free power sets have been included with Issue releases; all power sets released between Issues have been paid for. ~ AGGE talk/cons 18:20, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Having just double-checked on Beta, all three power sets (Water, Nature, Bio) require purchase by VIPs before use. I rolled back the changes made to their articles. ~ AGGE talk/cons 18:29, 23 June 2012 (UTC)