Difference between revisions of "Talk:Alignment"

Latest revision as of 01:25, 11 April 2012

Early 'Tips'

The first tantalizing in-game reference to Alignment Tip missions comes from the dialogue text related to the ferryman NPC Submarine Janus, who was introduced in Issue 17: "Additionally, you will dismiss any Alignment Tip missions that you have not completed. You will need to acquire the tips again in the standard way in order to run those missions." Naturally, there is no information about "the standard way" to acquire such tips.--Eternalgentleman 02:04, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Hey there

I'm pretty sure the alignment details are wrong.. I've heard the dev's describe it as Heroes go vigilante, villains go rogue, and this allows the accesses listed, and it's not so much a chain. If someone has reference for this chain system than could that please be cited?- Dekar 16:42, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

In fact I would like to reference the Herocon keynote which detailed the alignment and set forth that when a villain falls they ARE a rogue and they can go to paragon city, etc, and the opposite for heroes. Unless someone can present a source for the chain system, I am going to keep the changes. - Dekar 16:55, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

I am seeing something in the recent QA that references a total switch, So I may have been mistake, Terribly sorry, Just going off of the facts presented. Dekar 17:12, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Villains can become heroes. They first have to become rogues, and then further Alignment Tip missions will make them full heroes. However, they can remain rogues if they like, and have access to both Paragon City and the Rogue Isles. If they become full heroes, they only have access to Paragon City.

Heroes can become villains. They first have to become vigilantes, and then further Alignment Tip missions will make them full villains. However, they can remain vigilantes if they like, and have access to both Paragon City and the Rogue Isles. If they become full villains, they only have access to the Rogue Isles.

No, I can't cite specific posts because the citations are spread out over many interviews, casual dev posts, videos, etc. But yes, this is how it is done. ~ AGGE talk/cons 17:25, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Here's a source: [1] Look for the section where Melissa responds to "What’s the process of becoming a Vigilante or Rogue?". It indicates that heroes who become vigilantes can eventually become full-fledged villains... and then indicates that they would then still have opportunities to reverse the switch. -- Sekoia 03:19, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

I revised the information on alignment within Praetoria, going into more detail about the two groups that make up each of the two sides. The section on true "Heroes" and "Villains" should probably be expanded to include information on, or links to information on, the new Hero and Villain merits and lounges. Garielle 17:29, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

There is not a badge for staying true that gets revoked if you change alignment. -- Snow Globe 18:01, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Sandbox

Straight cut/paste from previous version of ((User:Konoko)) page.--Konoko 15:01, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Praetorian Factions Mirroring Primal Alignments

Arguments can be made in more than one direction for each of the Praetorian factions, and thus forcing a single "Primal Earth Alignment" on any one Praetorian faction is highly subjective. Even within each faction, there are characters that subscribe differently to their factions' "beliefs". I do not agree AT ALL with their inclusion in the article. ~ AGGE talk/cons 22:57, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Agreed with Aggelakis on the point that any particular Praetorian story branch can fall into more than one Alignment. Sure, Loyalist Power resembles Rogue, but also Villain and Vigilante. We could put together a committee to find which is most like what, but that's all for the point of something that's subjective, and therefore shouldn't find its way into the article. --GuyPerfect 00:56, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

The most it would warrant on the page is a brief mention that there are no direct relationships between the Primal and Praetorian alignments. --Eabrace 02:54, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

There's one exception where Praetorian alignments are directly mapped to Primal alignments: the Valentines mission. It treats Loyalists like Villains, and Resistance like Heroes. -- Leandro 12:10, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

I added a section under the Praetorian alignment top-level header regarding alignment distinctions. (I also linked the faction storylines.) As none of the Praetorian alignments directly compare, beliefs and actions, to Primal alignments, this is IMO the only concession to be made. ~ AGGE talk/cons 17:29, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

There is a very major difference between "mirror" and "resembles". I'll lay it out like this.

Wardens: Fight to protect the people, while breaking the established law. If they have to encounter the authorities, then so be it. Vigilante.

Crusader: Interested in only destruction and wrecking things. Some may have good intentions, but they are definitely doing the wrong thing. Villain.

Power: Money, fame, fortune. They want to be the top dog and want everyone to know it. Rogue.

Loyalist: Protects the people, upholds the law. Does everything in the best interest of the city and its preservation as a peaceful utopia. Hero.

Any objections? Mondocool 23:27, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Objections.

Warden: Infiltrate the political infrastructure of a malignant dictatorship to rescue and protect the oppressed. Hero. (See: the level 40-50 Hero Morality Mission where you rescue a Bane Spider from Grandville)

Crusader: Plot against the aforementioned dictatorship to prevent it from causing any further harm, even if causing harm in doing so. Vigilante. (See: that Vigilante tip where you fail to stop an earthquake)

Power: Disregard the wishes and concerns of all around you in order to get what you want for yourself. Villain. (See: Mayhem Missions)

Responsibility: Haven't played these personally, but I'm sure I could find a way that they "resemble" Rogue.

--GuyPerfect 00:24, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Mondocool, you'll never get the consensus to make the edit you want because the overwhelming consensus of both players and developers are against you. In early Beta, yes, Loyalists were mechanically treated as Villains and Resistance as Heroes. But as development continued, those links kept getting severed such that, with the exception of the Valentine's Event, those links no longer exist. Praetoria was specifically made to be not just shades of grey, but also candy-cane stripes of white and black. The government does really bad things, things that could be considered war crimes and crimes against humanity. But what if the basis of Cole's dictatorship is right, namely, that without Cole resisting the incarnate powered Hamidon, all humanity would be wiped from the planet? Doesn't that justify some of their social controls? And what if some cog in the machine doesn't know about the mental rape that Mother Mayhem is doing to the Seers? But what if they learn of the atrocities of their government? Or what if they suspect Cole's rationale is false and that Hamidon is not the threat they say it is? How far do you go to resist that? Reform the government? Blow it up? Blow it up along with innocent bystanders? Neither Calvin Scott nor Mother Mayhem are doing what they are doing for the greater good, and are doing some pretty horrendous things to get what they want out of selfish desires. They are both Villains. And yet they're on opposite factions. Morally, Crusaders and Powers folks are evil. It is not "Roguish" to blow up a hospital or to mentally devour the people in your protection. Praetorian factions are political factions, not moral ones as they are in CoH. Zombie Man 05:14, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Overview section

I think there is an issue with this section that I'd like some confirmation.

Alignment Missions are accessible even to those who have not applied a Going Rogue code to their account or purchased the Create a Praetorian "expansion" from the Paragon Market, but they cannot obtain Morality Missions to reaffirm or change their alignment.

The Create a Praetorian purchase on the Paragon market has nothing to do with alignment changes AFAIK. I don't personally have it purchased and cannot confirm. I believe they meant to refer to the Alignment System unlock you can purchase from the paragon market.

I've also changed the text about receiving a tip after you have 10 points but don't have the unlock for the alignment system. There is no pop up; it just simply converts it to another alignment mission. I've done this a number of times and almost have one character maxed on points for both hero and vigilante.--Pi Masta 17:16, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

It is indeed the Alignment System. Not entirely sure what I was thinking when I put in the Create a Praetorian link. I fixed the reference; thanks for pointing that out! ~ AGGE talk/cons 18:16, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

VIP to Premium without Alignment system

I haven't found anywhere what happens if you switch alignment (in particular Vigilante or Rogue) on a Character and then let your subscription run out and you haven't purchased the Alignment system. I would hope it would not lock the character.

• Are you stuck as a Vigilante/Rogue (and can go between Paragon City and Rogue Isles) until you resubscribe?
  • Possibly reset to Hero/Villain alignment (Hero for Vigilante, Villain for Rogue) or your original Alignment
• Do you keep the special power (eg Justice) obtained for keeping an alignment?
• Are you still able to spend Hero/Villain merits after the subscription runs out? (My guess is yes)
• If you start a morality mission but don't complete it. After your subscription runs out can you complete it or does it vanish?
  • Similarly getting a morality mission tip... does it go away? Can't get a mission from it?
  • If you can complete a morality mission after your subscription runs out, do you get any benefits? (doubtful)

--Pi Masta 00:05, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Point Deletion Bug

Is the bug documented on this page still in effect? --GuyPerfect 18:09, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

'Tis an excellent question. —Thirty7 01:25, 11 April 2012 (UTC)