Talk:Day Job Badges/Archive1

This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Ok, i've gone through edited the all the day job badge links and added "Day Job" to them as some were linking to different badges, example being the [Doctor] badge which was going to the healing badge not the day job badge

Example of what i've done: From ((Arachnos Official Badge|Arachnos Official)) to ((Arachnos Official Day Job Badge|Arachnos Official))

I was going to change just the ones affected, but I thought I might as well do them all, and that way have some continuity with them, hopefully this should stop any confusion with them before it starts :) -- Dustified 03:42, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Duplicate Day Jobs

Just checking on all my alts and I had one that while in the hospital at Mercy Island, earned both Arachnos Agent & Pain Specialist. Torin23 18:03, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Correct. In that case you are both in a hospital and inside an Arachnos-controlled area. Standing at the base portal in Talos Island allows you to earn both Commuter and Monitor Duty at the same time. Parking in the hospital inside the Vanguard base in RWZ counts toward both Caregiver/Pain Specialist and Vanguard Recruit. There are other locations that offer multiple day jobs as well. --Eabrace 19:45, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

You sure? I'm in RWZ now and it's either Pain Specialist or Vanguard Recruit, never both. -- Baalus Seth 21:55, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

When you're standing there logged in, you'll only see one icon, however, my Controller who's been logged out there since before I13 is was showing equal progress on both Caregiver and Vanguard Recruit when I logged him in last night. Same thing with the dual progress on Commuter and Monitor Duty in Talos; you'll only see one icon for the day job location while logged in, but progress accumulates on both badges if you're standing in the right area. --Eabrace 22:03, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Seems to be the way you describe. Add another two to the list, Hospital in Grandville, Arachnos Official and Pain Specialist. At least for standing on the lip of the door. Also, heroside Vault in Pocket D for Clubber and Banker/Thief. However, the Arachnos base in Siren's Call doesn't count as for Pain Specialist and the Hero Hospital in Siren's doesn't count for Predator. -~- Baalus Seth 20:32, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Another useful place is in the Vanguard base next to the base portal since it gives credit for both Vanguard Recruit and Monitor. Also has anyone checked to see if the vault in Pocket D gives dual credit? CmdrAdeon 20:03, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

I think I parked one of my characters in the Pocket D vault on test and didn't get credit toward Clubber, but I'm not entirely certain of that. I wonder if she's still parked there. . . --Eabrace 21:41, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Just logged into a character parked next to the Arachnos Flyer at the top of Fort Darwin (Mercy Island) and got both the Pilot and Arachnos Agent badges. --Ssyrie 20:18, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Accolade Descriptions

What happened to the accolade descriptions? This was a very useful summary page, now it's not. Doc Scorpion 00:50, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

You might be thinking of Day Jobs, as this page has never had descriptions. -- Aggelakis 00:56, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Moved the detailed accolade listing over here from Day Jobs since otherwise it'd just be duplicate tables from the main Day Jobs page. -- Aggelakis 01:59, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

X Day Job Badge

I had deliberately made these badges to be "X Day Job Badge", going against naming convention, because they are not just badges. They are actually Day Jobs and Badges at the same time. This is why I did not go with "X Badge" in the first place. I would like to put it to a vote to return Day Job to these badges' namespaces. -- Agge (talk) 16:06, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Wouldn't the day job badges be treated the same as gladiator or accolade badges? Gladiator badges give you more than just a badge, too, but we don't call them "X Gladiator Badge," nor do we call Accolades that give you bonuses/powers "X Accolade Badge." --Blondeshell 20:44, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

I very strongly oppose moving them back. It completely breaks convention with all of our other badges. "Day Job" should not be in the title. The points Blondeshell makes with regards to gladiators and accolades are spot on. I do not see any benefit to putting day job in the title. Even if they do somewhat cover the day job aspect, that does not need to be in the title. If necessary, make a redirect from "X Day Job" to "X Badge". I'd even support separating the Day Job information into separate "Day Job" articles, if need be. But naming it "X Day Job Badges" it misleading. You state the they are actually covering two things: the day job and the badge. If that's the case, then the title should be "X Day Job and Badge" or "X Badge and Day Job"--which further emphasizes that perhaps they should be split in some fashion if we really want to keep the Day Jobs at an article-level status. -- Sekoia 01:56, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Merge Tables?

Personally, I believe the Hero/Villain Day Job tables would look better were they merged, especially since both sides get badges that give the same rewards. Thoughts? - Baalus Seth 20:32, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

I worry that the table might be too wide and would make things get lost in the mix. Right now, each table is very straightforward. If you combined them, it would be a lot of extra info that might get in the way if you were just looking for one or the other. That said, it might work... just would have to see and compare I think. If you want, put a copy of what you envision here on the talk page. -- Sekoia 19:27, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Count me as a vote against combination. If I want to know hero-side day job badges, I want to go to the heroes' section, not pick through a combo section. -- Agge (talk) 00:31, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, yes, but consider this. If I want to check Hero badges and Hero accolades, I have to scroll past the Villain section every time. If we merged the Badges tables, the worry would be gone. Hell, one could also merge the accolades, since they correspond across sides as far as a badges are concerned, you'd just have to split powers like the WW/BM teleporter. -- Baalus Seth 00:47, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

"If I want to check X badges..." I click on the little Table of Contents that goes to the appropriate place in the page. ;) I still vote no. -- Agge (talk) 00:51, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Let's see how this works out... -- Baalus Seth 00:40, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

If we were to combine tables, I think I'd prefer to see something more like the tables in the Zone Overview. --Eabrace 20:14, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

It's so cluttered! I really, really do prefer a separate listing for ease of newb use. -- Agge (talk) 21:19, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

I have no problem with the current layout. And you are correct. We have to keep in mind that the people who most need the information we're recording are the people that are completely unfamiliar with the system. Our approach should be from that angle. I know I sometimes need a smack upside the head to reminded of that. --Eabrace 21:30, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Holy moley. I completely agree with Agge. The current layout seems far better than any of the above. I vote we leave it as is. -- Sekoia 01:04, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

• Holy -crap-. Umm, you do know the idea behind my suggestion was to -reduce- the amount of space taken up, not make the tables somewhat impossible to look at due to sheer size and excessive redundancy. -- Baalus Seth 02:11, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

I do realize what the intent of your suggestion was. Personal preference and thought patterns play a large part here. Your suggestion looks good from your perspective and presents the information in a manner that makes perfect sense to you. It immediately conveys to you exactly what you would want to see at a glance when looking at the table. From my perspective, however, since hero and villain day jobs appear on the same lines rather than each having their own dedicated line of information, it jumbles the data I'm looking for when I check the tables. My combined tables, on the other hand, immediately convey to me the information I'm looking for at a glance. (There's probably some Meyers/Briggs relationship in there somewhere.)

(As a side note: This looks very neat and pretty to me, but makes some people bleed from their eye sockets.)

The problem is that in optimizing the tables from our own perspectives we reduce the signal to noise ratio for most everyone else. The current method used in the article provides a good compromise by maintaining split tables to keep all of the information presented more compartmentalized and reduce the amount of information presented in each table.

The current layout with split tables really is better for the majority than either of the above methods for combining tables. As authors and editors here, we have to keep the audience in mind and try to steer ourselves toward what makes more sense for the masses even if it's not as clear to us on a personal level. --Eabrace 07:09, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Graveyards

Do people think that it would be useful to start an article listing the locations that count as graveyards? It's something that isn't immediately obvious and could be useful. CmdrAdeon 17:48, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

That might not be a bad idea. Alternately, we could list graveyard sites in the article for Mortician, but I think a separate article might be the better option. --Eabrace 19:43, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I've set up a simple article on graveyards with appropriate redirects and links. Currently it only lists the one graveyard that I could remember off the top of my head, I'll try and check the other hero ones later. CmdrAdeon 00:33, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Double Day Job Locations

Recently a user removed the Double Day Jobs section with a comment that he had checked the Pocket D ones and that they did not work. I have checked the Talos one today and it does still work so I think we need to try and do a bit more research to determine for sure which ones do and don't work. To that end if you have recently confirmed that one works (by logging out and checking your badge progress or powers) please post here. CmdrAdeon 22:40, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

I've also re-confirmed the Vanguard/Monitor one CmdrAdeon 23:22, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

I logged a character out in the Vanguard hospital tonight with no progress on either Vanguard or Caregiver. I'll try to remember to report the results back here. --Eabrace 05:02, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Update: Just checked and Caregiver and Vanguard progress bars are now both showing 4.36% progress. (Location (212.0, -1191.5, -2264.0).)

Had to mention that Pocket D has another double day job location in the areas with the regen pods (where heroes or villians go in Pocket D when they click Go To Hospital). You can get Clubber and Care Giver/Pain Specialist badges.

Has anyone checked the Pocket D arena yet? -- Gothenem

I've done some checking in places that seemed like they might work, and the hospital areas in the following zones do NOT appear to give dual credit: Firebase Zulu, Recluse's Victory, Cimerora, and Oroborus. Interestingly in Recluse's Victory the portal that leads from the Hero's base to the main zone appears to give monitor credit, but I haven't checked to see if it gives dual credit. CmdrAdeon 08:00, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

OK, let's see here....

Cimerora rez location: nope, one job only. Grandville: nope Mercy: Nope, not either location. Pocket-D: Nope. Vanguard: Nope. Talos: Nope.

I tried them all, none of them work. Sometimes it takes 15 seconds for the day job icons to switch over but they do switch. Also, if you have the day job benifits, you'll have an icon, so it's best to test with somebody that doesn't have the job at all. Otherwise you have to look for three icons!

I did find a bug. Villain rez station (and vault?) give the Clubber badge while the hero side gives badges for caregiver (and banker).

I could swear there was a patch note about cleaning these things up but I don't see it anywhere. Maybe it was at the end of beta? Zloth

Zloth, make sure you are judging these by badge progress when you log back in, not by the icons. The icons don't really mean anything, you don't always get two icons. -- Agge (talk) 17:35, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

If you can't judge by the icons, then we are going to need a lot more than just telling people to use careful positioning. Positioning where? Anywhere along the border between the two badges? Only in some spots along the border? How can you tell if you are on the border or just close to it?

Honestly, I really doubt this effect exists at all now. The icons are just reporting what day job you will get according to your exact location. The call to see what icon to show is very likely the same call made when you log in to award day job credit. --Zloth 17:55, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

It's not. You don't always get two icons. I am currently getting badge progress on Monitor Duty/Clubber at the base portal in Pocket D. I am only getting the icon for Monitor Duty. I'm sorry, you're wrong. -- Agge (talk) 18:01, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

That's very odd. Hero or villain? And at what exact location? Because I had a hero logged out right near the base portal for over a week. She got progress on monitor duty but clubber hadn't even started. If you could post a /loc then I could set myself at the same spot and confirm. --Zloth 19:38, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

An easy one to confirm the double credit on is the Vanguard hospital. I get credit for Vanguard and Caregiver when logged off towards the back of the hospital area, regardless of the number of icons displayed. I've seen others say that you have to log off on the hospital steps, but my testing indicates otherwise. I've also found that the Arachnos base near the ferry in St Martial gives double credit if you log off close to the ferry or the Black Helicopter.

The general principle appears to be that day job locations will not exclude one another unless the devs have specifically cleaned them up - i.e. created a cut-out in the defined area for the encompassing location. The Pocket D and Grandville zone badges appear to mostly drop off when you're in another day job location (based on testing by myself and others in my SG), but there are plenty of sweet spots in Arachnos bases (for instance) that don't appear to require you to be positioned on or near the border of the two areas. Redoubt 23:21, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

That matches my theory. One useful trick that sometimes allows you to tell if an area might give double credit or not is to move slowly around the edge and see if you can find a gap where you get no day job icon. If you can find a blank spot then it shows that the two day jobs don't overlap. CmdrAdeon 23:53, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Well what'd'ya know... I just logged off standing on the sink in the back of the Vanguard base and got double credit. In fact, I just tried it standing on the drain that's right in the center of the room and it worked. Craziness.

So now we've got to actually explain it to people. Where do you actually have to stand for all the double credits? --Zloth 02:42, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

At the base portal in Pocket D (46.3, 0, -1040), I get double-duty. Additionally, I am managing to get both icons for once (usually I only have one icon). -- Agge (talk) 12:19, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

My other character isn't getting double-duty in the same spot. The character that was getting double-duty is on a server that's currently down, so I can't look in her badges and verify. -- Agge (talk) 13:18, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

I did get credit for both Care Giver/Pain Specialist and Clubber in the Hero Side hospital area of Pocket D. Not sure if the villian side works. I still need to double check the portal area, the vaults and the villian side. Gothenem 14:10, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Well for the Talos one I find that standing on the wall between the train station and portal seems to work (although I think the overlap is bigger than that). For the two Vanguard ones the overlap seems to cover the entire area. CmdrAdeon 17:01, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

• Just confirmed Fort Darwin for Arachnos Agent and Pain Specialist. -- Baalus Seth 17:23, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

I thought I'd share this. I was getting three day job icons at the helicopter on the north end of grandville, where you go for mayhem missions. Pilot, Smuggler, and Arachnos Official. Hope it pans out, I'm trying it out now. --Professor Immortal 01:44, 12 January 2009 (UTC)