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Difference between revisions of "Talk:Dual Blades"

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(→‎Scrapper (with combos): playing with words)
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=Combo Tables=
+
{{TOCright}}
−
I used class="wikitable" to get the general table formatting (thin borders, grey backgrounds on headers). Comments? Suggestions? --[[User:Konoko|Konoko]] 02:00, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
+
==NOTE==
 +
Do not update the article with the tables below until I11 goes live. The powers need updating though, have at those! --[[User:Konoko|Konoko]]
  
−
Looks much better like this.  I'm still questioning my use of colors in the tables.  At the very least they ought to be changed to a paler hue, like the blue in the nav bar.  Now to add a little more detail to the combo effects! -[[User:Pythe|Pythe]] 14:42, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
+
I added a redirect from "Dual Blade" (singular) to the main article --[[User:Ti Taz|Ti Taz]] 13:04, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
  
−
I'm thinking about combining the combo attack tables... I'll throw an idea at the bottom here, after I sketch it out here... -[[User:Pythe|Pythe]] 15:13, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
+
==Power Tables==
−
==Combination Attacks==
+
 
Greydog made a suggestion below, and I've added it to the power tables to see how it looks. While keeping Pythe's original combo tables might be redundant, some players might be able to understand the combos better in that format, myself included. My vote is to keep both. --[[User:Konoko|Konoko]] 18:36, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
 
Greydog made a suggestion below, and I've added it to the power tables to see how it looks. While keeping Pythe's original combo tables might be redundant, some players might be able to understand the combos better in that format, myself included. My vote is to keep both. --[[User:Konoko|Konoko]] 18:36, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
−
: Hm... they just don't seem wordy enough. --Konoko
+
: Hm... they just don't seem wordy enough. Added words. --Konoko
 +
:Your ideas intrigue me, and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter...--[[User:GreyDog|GreyDog]] 20:44, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
 +
 
 +
::I'll second that, I like this one.  The only thing we're missing is what the effect of each combo is.  That, I figure, could easily be summed up where the current table exists with a simpler table or bulleted list. -[[User:Pythe|Pythe]] 11:19, 5 November 2007 (EST)
 +
 
 +
:::The Combo effects are relatively short, eg. "+Damage", what about an extra row under the header with that information? -[[User:Doctor Magus|Doctor Magus]] 12:18, 19 November 2007 (EST)
 +
===Layout===
 +
Hrm... with the new Wikia skins and 1280x1024 resoultion, this is what the DB article looks like with the new tables laid out below. --[[User:Konoko|Konoko]] 28 November 2007
 +
:That's pretty easy to fix with a clr. [[User:Aggelakis|Aggelakis]] 00:19, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
''All GIFs, approx. 150KB each''
 +
 
 +
Image:Dual Blades layout 1280x1024 Scrapper.gif|Top of page, TOC squishes Scrapper table
 +
Image:Dual Blades layout 1280x1024 Brute.gif|lower down, TOC not a problem
 +
Image:Dual Blades layout 1600x1200.gif|1600x1200, not a problem
 +
Image:Dual Blades layout 1440x900.gif|1440x900, minor annoyance
 +
 
 +
 
 +
===Scrapper (original table)===
 +
{{Powers_LevelHeader}}
 +
{{Powers_LevelRow|Icon=DualBlades_LightOpening.png|Power=Nimble Slash|Level=1|Effect=Melee, Minor Damage (Lethal).  |Extra=Begins Empower and Weaken combos|Border=1}}
 +
{{Powers_LevelRow|Icon=DualBlades_ModerateOpening.png|Power=Power Slice|Level=1|Effect=Melee, Moderate Damage(Lethal).|Extra= Needed for Sweep combo|Border=1}}
 +
{{Powers_LevelRow|Icon=DualBlades_ModerateBridge.png|Power=Ablating Strike|Level=2|Effect=Melee, Moderate Damage (Lethal), Foe -Defense.|Extra= Needed for Empower and Weaken combos, begins Attack Vitals combo|Border=1}}
 +
{{Powers_LevelRow|Icon=DualBlades_AoEBridge.png|Power=Typhoon's Edge|Level=6|Effect=Point Blank Area of Effect Melee, Moderate Damage (Lethal).|Extra= Finishes Weaken and Sweep combos|Border=1}}
 +
{{Powers_LevelRow|Icon=DualBlades_FollowUp.png|Power=Blinding Feint|Level=8|Effect=Melee, Moderate Damage (Lethal) Self +Damage +Accuracy.|Extra= Finishes Empower combo|Border=1}}
 +
{{Powers_LevelRow|Icon=DualBlades_Taunt.png|Power=Confront|Level=12|Effect=Ranged, Foe Taunt|Border=1}}
 +
{{Powers_LevelRow|Icon=DualBlades_Special1.png|Power=Vengeful Slice|Level=18|Effect=Melee, Moderate Damage(Lethal), Foe Knockdown.|Extra= Needed for Attack Vitals combo|Border=1}}
 +
{{Powers_LevelRow|Icon=DualBlades_Special2.png|Power=Sweeping Strike|Level=26|Effect=Melee (Cone), Superior Damage (Lethal).|Extra= Finishes Attack Vitals combo|Border=1}}
 +
{{Powers_LevelRow|Icon=DualBlades_HighLow.png|Power=One Thousand Cuts|Level=32|Effect=Melee (Cone), Superior Damage (Lethal).|Extra= Begins Sweep combo|Border=0}}
 +
{{Powers_Footer}}
 +
 
 
===Scrapper (with combos)===
 
===Scrapper (with combos)===
 
{{Powers_LevelComboHeader|Combo1=Weaken|Combo2=Empower|Combo3=Attack Vitals|Combo4=Sweep}}
 
{{Powers_LevelComboHeader|Combo1=Weaken|Combo2=Empower|Combo3=Attack Vitals|Combo4=Sweep}}
−
{{Powers_LevelComboRow|Icon=DualBlades_LightOpening.png|Power=Nimble Slash|Level=1|Effect=Melee, Minor Damage (Lethal).  |Combo1=Open|Combo2=First}}
 
−
{{Powers_LevelComboRow|Icon=DualBlades_ModerateOpening.png|Power=Power Slice|Level=1|Effect=Melee, Moderate Damage(Lethal).|Combo4=Continue}}
 
−
{{Powers_LevelComboRow|Icon=DualBlades_ModerateBridge.png|Power=Ablating Strike|Level=2|Effect=Melee, Moderate Damage (Lethal), Foe -Defense.|Combo1=Bridge|Combo2=Second|Combo3=Start}}
 
−
{{Powers_LevelComboRow|Icon=DualBlades_AoEBridge.png|Power=Typhoon's Edge|Level=6|Effect=Point Blank Area of Effect Melee, Moderate Damage (Lethal).|Combo1=Finish|Combo4=End}}
 
−
{{Powers_LevelComboRow|Icon=DualBlades_FollowUp.png|Power=Blinding Feint|Level=8|Effect=Melee, Moderate Damage (Lethal) Self +Damage +Accuracy.|Combo2=Third}}
 
−
{{Powers_LevelComboRow|Icon=DualBlades_Taunt.png|Power=Confront|Level=12|Effect=Ranged, Foe Taunt|Border=1}}
 
−
{{Powers_LevelComboRow|Icon=DualBlades_Special1.png|Power=Vengeful Slice|Level=18|Effect=Melee, Moderate Damage(Lethal), Foe Knockdown.|Combo3=Stop}}
 
−
{{Powers_LevelComboRow|Icon=DualBlades_Special2.png|Power=Sweeping Strike|Level=26|Effect=Melee (Cone), Superior Damage (Lethal).|Combo3=Middle}}
 
−
{{Powers_LevelComboRow|Icon=DualBlades_HighLow.png|Power=One Thousand Cuts|Level=32|Effect=Melee (Cone), Superior Damage (Lethal).|Combo4=Begin}}
 
−
{{Powers_Footer}}
 
−
For this table I prevented '''Attack Vitals''' from wrapping onto a second line. It looks cleaner, but at lower resolutions the power descriptions become squished.
 
−
{{Powers_LevelComboHeader|Combo1=Weaken|Combo2=Empower|Combo3=Attack Vitals|Combo4=Sweep}}
 
 
{{Powers_LevelComboRow|Icon=DualBlades_LightOpening.png|Power=Nimble Slash|Level=1|Effect=Melee, Minor Damage (Lethal).  |Combo1=1|Combo2=1}}
 
{{Powers_LevelComboRow|Icon=DualBlades_LightOpening.png|Power=Nimble Slash|Level=1|Effect=Melee, Minor Damage (Lethal).  |Combo1=1|Combo2=1}}
 
{{Powers_LevelComboRow|Icon=DualBlades_ModerateOpening.png|Power=Power Slice|Level=1|Effect=Melee, Moderate Damage(Lethal).|Combo4=2}}
 
{{Powers_LevelComboRow|Icon=DualBlades_ModerateOpening.png|Power=Power Slice|Level=1|Effect=Melee, Moderate Damage(Lethal).|Combo4=2}}
Line 33: Line 51:
 
{{Powers_Footer}}
 
{{Powers_Footer}}
  
−
===Brute, Tanker, Scrapper===
+
===Scrapper (alternate text)===
 +
{{Powers_LevelComboHeader
 +
|Combo1=Weaken
 +
|Combo2=Empower
 +
|Combo3=Attack Vitals
 +
|Combo4=Sweep
 +
|Effect1=Foe -ToHit -Def
 +
|Effect2=Self +Damage +Acc
 +
|Effect3=Cone +DoT
 +
|Effect4=PBAoE +Knockdown}}
 +
{{Powers_LevelComboRow|Icon=DualBlades_LightOpening.png|Power=Nimble Slash|Level=1|Effect=Melee, Minor Damage (Lethal).  |Combo1=Begin|Combo2=Begin}}
 +
{{Powers_LevelComboRow|Icon=DualBlades_ModerateOpening.png|Power=Power Slice|Level=1|Effect=Melee, Moderate Damage(Lethal).|Combo4=Continue}}
 +
{{Powers_LevelComboRow|Icon=DualBlades_ModerateBridge.png|Power=Ablating Strike|Level=2|Effect=Melee, Moderate Damage (Lethal), Foe -Defense.|Combo1=Continue|Combo2=Continue|Combo3=Begin}}
 +
{{Powers_LevelComboRow|Icon=DualBlades_AoEBridge.png|Power=Typhoon's Edge|Level=6|Effect=Point Blank Area of Effect Melee, Moderate Damage (Lethal).|Combo1=Finish|Combo4=Finish}}
 +
{{Powers_LevelComboRow|Icon=DualBlades_FollowUp.png|Power=Blinding Feint|Level=8|Effect=Melee, Moderate Damage (Lethal) Self +Damage +Accuracy.|Combo2=Finish}}
 +
{{Powers_LevelComboRow|Icon=DualBlades_Taunt.png|Power=Confront|Level=12|Effect=Ranged, Foe Taunt|Border=1}}
 +
{{Powers_LevelComboRow|Icon=DualBlades_Special1.png|Power=Vengeful Slice|Level=18|Effect=Melee, Moderate Damage(Lethal), Foe Knockdown.|Combo3=Finish}}
 +
{{Powers_LevelComboRow|Icon=DualBlades_Special2.png|Power=Sweeping Strike|Level=26|Effect=Melee (Cone), Superior Damage (Lethal).|Combo3=Continue}}
 +
{{Powers_LevelComboRow|Icon=DualBlades_HighLow.png|Power=One Thousand Cuts|Level=32|Effect=Melee (Cone), Superior Damage (Lethal).|Combo4=Begin}}
 +
{{Powers_Footer}}
 +
 
 +
===GreyDog's out-of-his-gourd idea===
 +
This is a tricky concept to get across. Personally, I find the Power Name/Icon confusing, in isolation. They only way I really get a sense of a power is seeing it in the context of the whole powerset. So, an ideal chart for me would look something like this... --Greydog
 +
{| class="wikitable"
 +
|-
 +
||Powers
 +
||Weaken
 +
||Empower
 +
||Attack Vitals
 +
||Sweep
 +
|-
 +
||[[Image:DualBlades LightOpening.png|22px]] Nimble Slash
 +
||1
 +
||1
 +
||
 +
||
 +
|-
 +
||[[Image:DualBlades ModerateOpening.png|22px]] Power Slice
 +
||
 +
||
 +
||
 +
||2
 +
|-
 +
||[[Image:DualBlades ModerateBridge.png|22px]] Ablating Strike
 +
||2
 +
||2
 +
||1
 +
||
 +
|-
 +
||[[Image:DualBlades AoEBridge.png|22px]] Typhoon's Edge
 +
||3
 +
||
 +
||
 +
||3
 +
|-
 +
||[[Image:DualBlades FollowUp.png|22px]] Blinding Feint
 +
||
 +
||3
 +
||
 +
||
 +
|-
 +
||Confront
 +
||
 +
||
 +
||
 +
||
 +
|-
 +
||[[Image:DualBlades Special1.png|22px]] Vengeful Slice
 +
||
 +
||
 +
||2
 +
||
 +
|-
 +
||[[Image:DualBlades Special2.png|22px]] Sweeping Strike
 +
||
 +
||
 +
||3
 +
||
 +
|-
 +
|| [[Image:DualBlades HighLow.png|22px]] One Thousand Cuts
 +
||
 +
||
 +
||
 +
||1
 +
|}
 +
I could be out of my gourd, however. Feel free to ignore my comment if I'm in the minority.--[[User:GreyDog|GreyDog]] 17:19, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
 +
:No no no, nothing is ignored if it gives someone a ridiculously brilliant idea. Observe: The Power Table section is supposed to give a concise yet meaningful list of powers. Your table could be tacked on to the end of each power table. --[[User:Konoko|Konoko]] 20:02, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
 +
 
 +
== Alternate presentation ==
 +
===Combined Combo Table===
 +
This seems reasonable, if hard to read.  Perhaps seperate each combo into its own table? Or color each main rows alternately? -[[User:Pythe|Pythe]]
 +
 
 +
Still hard to read with colors.  Comments? -[[User:Pythe|Pythe]]
 +
: While I like icons, I'd rather have the names there, but Tanker/Scrapper/Brute is a little too wide. --[[User:Konoko|Konoko]] 20:12, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
 +
::I find this the easiest one to read and distinguish between Combo orders for the ATs, I'd re-arrange the Combo Names so they were alphabetical, but that's just me. --[[User:Mekkanare|Mekk]]
 +
::I find this one the easiest to read as well. - [[User:Snorii|Snorii]] 21:37, 20 November 2007 (EST)
 +
::I like this table (below).  I also like the "Scrapper Alternate" above out of the three in the previous section. --[[User:Ti Taz|Ti Taz]] 13:02, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
{| class="wikitable"
 +
|-
 +
! rowspan="2" | Combo Name
 +
! rowspan="2" | Effect
 +
! colspan="2" | Attacks
 +
|-
 +
!| [[Image:Archetypeicon tanker.png|22px]][[Image:Archetypeicon scrapper.png|22px]][[Image:V archetypeicon brute.png|22px]]
 +
!| [[Image:V archetypeicon stalker.png|22px]]
 +
|- bgcolor="#E0FFFF"
 +
| rowspan="3" | Empower
 +
| rowspan="3" | Self +Damage +Acc (less than Build Up)
 +
|| [[Image:DualBlades LightOpening.png|22px]] Nimble Slash
 +
|| [[Image:DualBlades BuildUp.png|22px]] Build Up
 +
|- bgcolor="#E0FFFF"
 +
|| [[Image:DualBlades ModerateBridge.png|22px]] Ablating Strike
 +
|| [[Image:DualBlades AssassinBlades.png|22px]] Assassin's Blades
 +
|- bgcolor="#E0FFFF"
 +
|| [[Image:DualBlades FollowUp.png|22px]] Blinding Feint
 +
|| [[Image:DualBlades Placate.png|22px]] Placate
 +
|-
 +
| rowspan="3" | Weaken
 +
| rowspan="3"| Foe -ToHit, -Def
 +
|| [[Image:DualBlades LightOpening.png|22px]] Nimble Slash
 +
|| [[Image:DualBlades Special2.png|22px]] Sweeping Strike
 +
|-
 +
|| [[Image:DualBlades ModerateBridge.png|22px]] Ablating Strike
 +
|| [[Image:DualBlades ModerateOpening.png|22px]] Power Slice
 +
|-
 +
|| [[Image:DualBlades AoEBridge.png|22px]] Typhoon's Edge
 +
|| [[Image:DualBlades HighLow.png|22px]] One Thousand Cuts
 +
|- bgcolor="#E0FFFF"
 +
| rowspan="3" | Attack Vitals
 +
| rowspan="3" | Cone Minor Damage over Time(Lethal)
 +
|| [[Image:DualBlades ModerateBridge.png|22px]] Ablating Strike
 +
|| [[Image:DualBlades ModerateOpening.png|22px]] Power Slice
 +
|- bgcolor="#E0FFFF"
 +
|| [[Image:DualBlades Special1.png|22px]] Vengeful Slice
 +
|| [[Image:DualBlades LightOpening.png|22px]] Nimble Slash
 +
|- bgcolor="#E0FFFF"
 +
|| [[Image:DualBlades Special2.png|22px]] Sweeping Strike
 +
|| [[Image:DualBlades Special1.png|22px]] Vengeful Slice
 +
|-
 +
| rowspan="3" | Sweep
 +
| rowspan="3" | PBAoE Damage(Lethal), Knockdown
 +
|| [[Image:DualBlades HighLow.png|22px]] One Thousand Cuts
 +
|| [[Image:DualBlades BuildUp.png|22px]] Build Up
 +
|-
 +
|| [[Image:DualBlades ModerateOpening.png|22px]] Power Slice
 +
|| [[Image:DualBlades AssassinBlades.png|22px]] Assassin's Blades
 +
|-
 +
|| [[Image:DualBlades AoEBridge.png|22px]] Typhoon's Edge
 +
|| [[Image:DualBlades ModerateBridge.png|22px]] Ablating Strike
 +
|}
 +
 
 +
=== Separate tables ===
 +
I used class="wikitable" to get the general table formatting (thin borders, grey backgrounds on headers). Comments? Suggestions? --[[User:Konoko|Konoko]] 02:00, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
 +
 
 +
Looks much better like this.  I'm still questioning my use of colors in the tables.  At the very least they ought to be changed to a paler hue, like the blue in the nav bar.  Now to add a little more detail to the combo effects! -[[User:Pythe|Pythe]] 14:42, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
 +
 
 +
I'm thinking about combining the combo attack tables... I'll throw an idea at the bottom here, after I sketch it out here... -[[User:Pythe|Pythe]] 15:13, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
 +
====Brute, Tanker, Scrapper====
 
{| class="wikitable" | Combination Attacks
 
{| class="wikitable" | Combination Attacks
 
|- bgcolor="#CCCCCC"
 
|- bgcolor="#CCCCCC"
Line 67: Line 243:
 
|}
 
|}
  
−
===Stalker===
+
====Stalker====
 
{| class="wikitable" | Combination Attacks
 
{| class="wikitable" | Combination Attacks
 
|-  
 
|-  
Line 85: Line 261:
 
|| [[Image:DualBlades_BuildUp.png|22px]] Build Up
 
|| [[Image:DualBlades_BuildUp.png|22px]] Build Up
 
|| [[Image:DualBlades_Special2.png|22px]] Sweeping Strike
 
|| [[Image:DualBlades_Special2.png|22px]] Sweeping Strike
−
|| [[Image:DualBlades_ModerateBridge.png|22px]] Ablating Strike
+
|| [[Image:DualBlades_ModerateOpening.png|22px]] Power Slice
 
|| [[Image:DualBlades_BuildUp.png|22px]] Build Up
 
|| [[Image:DualBlades_BuildUp.png|22px]] Build Up
 
|-  
 
|-  
Line 101: Line 277:
 
|}
 
|}
  
−
==Combined Combo Table==
 
−
This seems reasonable, if hard to read.  Perhaps seperate each combo into its own table? Or color each main rows alternately? -[[User:Pythe|Pythe]]
 
  
−
Still hard to read with colors.  Comments? -[[User:Pythe|Pythe]]
+
== Error in combo for Stalker? ==
−
: While I like icons, I'd rather have the names there, but Tanker/Scrapper/Brute is a little too wide. --[[User:Konoko|Konoko]] 20:12, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
+
−
::I find this the easiest one to read and distinguish between Combo orders for the ATs, I'd re-arrange the Combo Names so they were alphabetical, but that's just me. --[[User:Mekkanare|Mekk]]
+
  
−
{| class="wikitable"
+
I am running a DB/Willpower Stalker currently and am noticing that the Attack Vitals combo is Power Slice, Nimble Slash, and Vengeful Slice, while listed here as beginning with Ablating Strike. --??
−
|-
+
: O RLY? No wonder my Attack Vitals combo doesn't work. I'd have figured this out if I hadn't wasted all my vetspecs. {{frown}} Fix it (or I will someday) --[[User:Konoko|Konoko]]
−
! rowspan="2" | Combo Name
+
:: Ok, fixed...  Shall I do the main page?  --[[User:Omnedon|Omnedon]] 02:23, 20 November 2007 (EST)
−
! rowspan="2" | Effect
+
::: Not yet, leave the article as it is for now. I'm still fleshing out the other tables. Keep this table up-to-date though, then we can update the article all at once when I11 goes live. --[[User:Konoko|Konoko]] 21:30, 20 November 2007 (EST)
−
! colspan="2" | Attacks
+
:::: Konoko, are you planning to update these now that I11 is out?  I was getting rather confused looking things up in Mids Hero Designer, looking at this page, and reading the little info boxes on my DB/Nin stalker. –- [[User:Ti Taz|Ti Taz]] 12:45, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
−
|-
+
−
!| [[Image:Archetypeicon tanker.png|22px]][[Image:Archetypeicon scrapper.png|22px]][[Image:V archetypeicon brute.png|22px]]
+
−
!| [[Image:V archetypeicon stalker.png|22px]]
+
−
|- bgcolor="#E0FFFF"
+
−
| rowspan="3" | Empower
+
−
| rowspan="3" | +Damage
+
−
|| [[Image:DualBlades LightOpening.png|22px]] Nimble Slash
+
−
|| [[Image:DualBlades BuildUp.png|22px]] Build Up
+
−
|- bgcolor="#E0FFFF"
+
−
|| [[Image:DualBlades ModerateBridge.png|22px]] Ablating Strike
+
−
|| [[Image:DualBlades AssassinBlades.png|22px]] Assassin's Blades
+
−
|- bgcolor="#E0FFFF"
+
−
|| [[Image:DualBlades FollowUp.png|22px]] Blinding Feint
+
−
|| [[Image:DualBlades Placate.png|22px]] Placate
+
−
|-
+
−
| rowspan="3" | Weaken
+
−
| rowspan="3"| Foe -ToHit, -Def
+
−
|| [[Image:DualBlades LightOpening.png|22px]] Nimble Slash
+
−
|| [[Image:DualBlades Special2.png|22px]] Sweeping Strike
+
−
|-
+
−
|| [[Image:DualBlades ModerateBridge.png|22px]] Ablating Strike
+
−
|| [[Image:DualBlades ModerateOpening.png|22px]] Power Slice
+
−
|-
+
−
|| [[Image:DualBlades AoEBridge.png|22px]] Typhoon's Edge
+
−
|| [[Image:DualBlades HighLow.png|22px]] One Thousand Cuts
+
−
|- bgcolor="#E0FFFF"
+
−
| rowspan="3" | Attack Vitals
+
−
| rowspan="3" | Cone Minor Damage over Time(Lethal)
+
−
|| [[Image:DualBlades ModerateBridge.png|22px]] Ablating Strike
+
−
|| [[Image:DualBlades ModerateBridge.png|22px]] Ablating Strike
+
−
|- bgcolor="#E0FFFF"
+
−
|| [[Image:DualBlades Special1.png|22px]] Vengeful Slice
+
−
|| [[Image:DualBlades LightOpening.png|22px]] Nimble Slice
+
−
|- bgcolor="#E0FFFF"
+
−
|| [[Image:DualBlades Special2.png|22px]] Sweeping Strike
+
−
|| [[Image:DualBlades Special1.png|22px]] Vengeful Slice
+
−
|-
+
−
| rowspan="3" | Sweep
+
−
| rowspan="3" | PBAoE Damage(Lethal), Knockdown
+
−
|| [[Image:DualBlades HighLow.png|22px]] One Thousand Cuts
+
−
|| [[Image:DualBlades BuildUp.png|22px]] Build Up
+
−
|-
+
−
|| [[Image:DualBlades ModerateOpening.png|22px]] Power Slice
+
−
|| [[Image:DualBlades AssassinBlades.png|22px]] Assassin's Blades
+
−
|-
+
−
|| [[Image:DualBlades AoEBridge.png|22px]] Typhoon's Edge
+
−
|| [[Image:DualBlades ModerateBridge.png|22px]] Ablating Strike
+
−
|}
+
  
−
==GreyDog's out-of-his-gourd idea==
+
== Combo terms ==
−
This is a tricky concept to get across. Personally, I find the Power Name/Icon confusing, in isolation. They only way I really get a sense of a power is seeing it in the context of the whole powerset. So, an ideal chart for me would look something like this... --Greydog
+
We need to make sure the same term is used every time that a term is used. Discuss! --[[User:Konoko|Konoko]] 21:44, 20 November 2007 (EST)
 
{| class="wikitable"
 
{| class="wikitable"
 +
!| Term
 +
!| Alt
 +
!| Meaning
 
|-
 
|-
−
||Powers
+
|| Opener
−
||Weaken
+
|| Open, Begin, start
−
||Empower
+
|| Power that open/begins/is-the-start of a combo
−
||Attack Vitals
+
−
||Sweep
+
 
|-
 
|-
−
||[[Image:DualBlades LightOpening.png|22px]] Nimble Slash
+
|| Bridge
−
||1
+
|| Continue, mid
−
||1
+
|| Power that continues a combo
−
||
+
−
||
+
 
|-
 
|-
−
||[[Image:DualBlades ModerateOpening.png|22px]] Power Slice
+
|| Finisher
−
||
+
|| End, Finish
−
||
+
|| Power that ends/completes a combo
−
||
+
−
||2
+
 
|-
 
|-
−
||[[Image:DualBlades ModerateBridge.png|22px]] Ablating Strike
+
|| Orange Combo Indicator Circle
−
||2
+
|| Orange Circle, duck l'orange
−
||2
+
|| Indicator that appears on a power (in the power tray) to indicate which power is next in a combo.
−
||1
+
−
||
+
−
|-
+
−
||[[Image:DualBlades AoEBridge.png|22px]] Typhoon's Edge
+
−
||3
+
−
||
+
−
||
+
−
||3
+
−
|-
+
−
||[[Image:DualBlades FollowUp.png|22px]] Blinding Feint
+
−
||
+
−
||3
+
−
||
+
−
||
+
−
|-
+
−
||Confront
+
−
||
+
−
||
+
−
||
+
−
||
+
−
|-
+
−
||[[Image:DualBlades Special1.png|22px]] Vengeful Slice
+
−
||
+
−
||
+
−
||2
+
−
||
+
−
|-
+
−
||[[Image:DualBlades Special2.png|22px]] Sweeping Strike
+
−
||
+
−
||
+
−
||3
+
−
||
+
−
|-
+
−
|| [[Image:DualBlades HighLow.png|22px]] One Thousand Cuts
+
−
||
+
−
||
+
−
||
+
−
||1
+
 
|}
 
|}
−
I could be out of my gourd, however. Feel free to ignore my comment if I'm in the minority.--[[User:GreyDog|GreyDog]] 17:19, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
 
−
:No no no, nothing is ignored if it gives someone a ridiculously brilliant idea. Observe: The Power Table section is supposed to give a concise yet meaningful list of powers. Your table could be tacked on to the end of each power table. --[[User:Konoko|Konoko]] 20:02, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
 
  
−
===Scrapper (original table)===
+
: I say we go with: Opener, Bridge, Finisher. The complete and verbose description for the circle would be "Orange Combo Indicator Circle," or "Orange Circle" for short.--[[User:GreyDog|GreyDog]] 10:24, 21 November 2007 (EST)
−
{{Powers_LevelHeader}}
+
:: Right-o --[[User:Konoko|Konoko]]
−
{{Powers_LevelRow|Icon=DualBlades_LightOpening.png|Power=Nimble Slash|Level=1|Effect=Melee, Minor Damage (Lethal). |Extra=Begins Empower and Weaken combos|Border=1}}
+
−
{{Powers_LevelRow|Icon=DualBlades_ModerateOpening.png|Power=Power Slice|Level=1|Effect=Melee, Moderate Damage(Lethal).|Extra= Needed for Sweep combo|Border=1}}
+
−
{{Powers_LevelRow|Icon=DualBlades_ModerateBridge.png|Power=Ablating Strike|Level=2|Effect=Melee, Moderate Damage (Lethal), Foe -Defense.|Extra= Needed for Empower and Weaken combos, begins Attack Vitals combo|Border=1}}
+
−
{{Powers_LevelRow|Icon=DualBlades_AoEBridge.png|Power=Typhoon's Edge|Level=6|Effect=Point Blank Area of Effect Melee, Moderate Damage (Lethal).|Extra= Finishes Weaken and Sweep combos|Border=1}}
+
−
{{Powers_LevelRow|Icon=DualBlades_FollowUp.png|Power=Blinding Feint|Level=8|Effect=Melee, Moderate Damage (Lethal) Self +Damage +Accuracy.|Extra= Finishes Empower combo|Border=1}}
+
−
{{Powers_LevelRow|Icon=DualBlades_Taunt.png|Power=Confront|Level=12|Effect=Ranged, Foe Taunt|Border=1}}
+
−
{{Powers_LevelRow|Icon=DualBlades_Special1.png|Power=Vengeful Slice|Level=18|Effect=Melee, Moderate Damage(Lethal), Foe Knockdown.|Extra= Needed for Attack Vitals combo|Border=1}}
+
−
{{Powers_LevelRow|Icon=DualBlades_Special2.png|Power=Sweeping Strike|Level=26|Effect=Melee (Cone), Superior Damage (Lethal).|Extra= Finishes Attack Vitals combo|Border=1}}
+
−
{{Powers_LevelRow|Icon=DualBlades_HighLow.png|Power=One Thousand Cuts|Level=32|Effect=Melee (Cone), Superior Damage (Lethal).|Extra= Begins Sweep combo|Border=0}}
+
−
{{Powers_Footer}}
+
−
 
+
−
===Scrapper (with combos)===
+
−
{{Powers_LevelComboHeader|Combo1=Weaken|Combo2=Empower|Combo3=Attack Vitals|Combo4=Sweep}}
+
−
{{Powers_LevelComboRow|Icon=DualBlades_LightOpening.png|Power=Nimble Slash|Level=1|Effect=Melee, Minor Damage (Lethal).  |Combo1=1|Combo2=1}}
+
−
{{Powers_LevelComboRow|Icon=DualBlades_ModerateOpening.png|Power=Power Slice|Level=1|Effect=Melee, Moderate Damage(Lethal).|Combo4=2}}
+
−
{{Powers_LevelComboRow|Icon=DualBlades_ModerateBridge.png|Power=Ablating Strike|Level=2|Effect=Melee, Moderate Damage (Lethal), Foe -Defense.|Combo1=2|Combo2=2|Combo3=1}}
+
−
{{Powers_LevelComboRow|Icon=DualBlades_AoEBridge.png|Power=Typhoon's Edge|Level=6|Effect=Point Blank Area of Effect Melee, Moderate Damage (Lethal).|Combo1=3|Combo4=3}}
+
−
{{Powers_LevelComboRow|Icon=DualBlades_FollowUp.png|Power=Blinding Feint|Level=8|Effect=Melee, Moderate Damage (Lethal) Self +Damage +Accuracy.|Combo2=3}}
+
−
{{Powers_LevelComboRow|Icon=DualBlades_Taunt.png|Power=Confront|Level=12|Effect=Ranged, Foe Taunt|Border=1}}
+
−
{{Powers_LevelComboRow|Icon=DualBlades_Special1.png|Power=Vengeful Slice|Level=18|Effect=Melee, Moderate Damage(Lethal), Foe Knockdown.|Combo3=3}}
+
−
{{Powers_LevelComboRow|Icon=DualBlades_Special2.png|Power=Sweeping Strike|Level=26|Effect=Melee (Cone), Superior Damage (Lethal).|Combo3=2}}
+
−
{{Powers_LevelComboRow|Icon=DualBlades_HighLow.png|Power=One Thousand Cuts|Level=32|Effect=Melee (Cone), Superior Damage (Lethal).|Combo4=1}}
+
−
{{Powers_Footer}}
+
−
 
+
−
:Your ideas intrigue me, and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter...--[[User:GreyDog|GreyDog]] 20:44, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
+
−
 
+
−
::I'll second that, I like this one.  The only thing we're missing is what the effect of each combo is.  That, I figure, could easily be summed up where the current table exists with a simpler table or bulleted list. -[[User:Pythe|Pythe]] 11:19, 5 November 2007 (EST)
+

Latest revision as of 06:51, 19 September 2010

NOTE

Do not update the article with the tables below until I11 goes live. The powers need updating though, have at those! --Konoko

I added a redirect from "Dual Blade" (singular) to the main article --Ti Taz 13:04, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Power Tables

Greydog made a suggestion below, and I've added it to the power tables to see how it looks. While keeping Pythe's original combo tables might be redundant, some players might be able to understand the combos better in that format, myself included. My vote is to keep both. --Konoko 18:36, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

Hm... they just don't seem wordy enough. Added words. --Konoko
Your ideas intrigue me, and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter...--GreyDog 20:44, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
I'll second that, I like this one. The only thing we're missing is what the effect of each combo is. That, I figure, could easily be summed up where the current table exists with a simpler table or bulleted list. -Pythe 11:19, 5 November 2007 (EST)
The Combo effects are relatively short, eg. "+Damage", what about an extra row under the header with that information? -Doctor Magus 12:18, 19 November 2007 (EST)

Layout

Hrm... with the new Wikia skins and 1280x1024 resoultion, this is what the DB article looks like with the new tables laid out below. --Konoko 28 November 2007

That's pretty easy to fix with a clr. Aggelakis 00:19, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

All GIFs, approx. 150KB each

Image:Dual Blades layout 1280x1024 Scrapper.gif|Top of page, TOC squishes Scrapper table Image:Dual Blades layout 1280x1024 Brute.gif|lower down, TOC not a problem Image:Dual Blades layout 1600x1200.gif|1600x1200, not a problem Image:Dual Blades layout 1440x900.gif|1440x900, minor annoyance


Scrapper (original table)

Power Level Effect
DualBlades LightOpening.png Nimble Slash 1 Melee, Minor Damage (Lethal).
DualBlades ModerateOpening.png Power Slice 1 Melee, Moderate Damage(Lethal).
DualBlades ModerateBridge.png Ablating Strike 2 Melee, Moderate Damage (Lethal), Foe -Defense.
DualBlades AoEBridge.png Typhoon's Edge 6 Point Blank Area of Effect Melee, Moderate Damage (Lethal).
DualBlades FollowUp.png Blinding Feint 8 Melee, Moderate Damage (Lethal) Self +Damage +Accuracy.
DualBlades Taunt.png Confront 12 Ranged, Foe Taunt
DualBlades Special1.png Vengeful Slice 18 Melee, Moderate Damage(Lethal), Foe Knockdown.
DualBlades Special2.png Sweeping Strike 26 Melee (Cone), Superior Damage (Lethal).
DualBlades HighLow.png One Thousand Cuts 32 Melee (Cone), Superior Damage (Lethal).

Scrapper (with combos)

Power Level Effect Weaken
{{{Effect1}}} 		Empower
{{{Effect2}}} 		Attack Vitals
{{{Effect3}}} 		Sweep
{{{Effect4}}}
DualBlades LightOpening.png Nimble Slash 1 Melee, Minor Damage (Lethal). 1 1    
DualBlades ModerateOpening.png Power Slice 1 Melee, Moderate Damage(Lethal).       2
DualBlades ModerateBridge.png Ablating Strike 2 Melee, Moderate Damage (Lethal), Foe -Defense. 2 2 1  
DualBlades AoEBridge.png Typhoon's Edge 6 Point Blank Area of Effect Melee, Moderate Damage (Lethal). 3     3
DualBlades FollowUp.png Blinding Feint 8 Melee, Moderate Damage (Lethal) Self +Damage +Accuracy.   3    
DualBlades Taunt.png Confront 12 Ranged, Foe Taunt        
DualBlades Special1.png Vengeful Slice 18 Melee, Moderate Damage(Lethal), Foe Knockdown.     3  
DualBlades Special2.png Sweeping Strike 26 Melee (Cone), Superior Damage (Lethal).     2  
DualBlades HighLow.png One Thousand Cuts 32 Melee (Cone), Superior Damage (Lethal).       1

Scrapper (alternate text)

Power Level Effect Weaken
Foe -ToHit -Def 		Empower
Self +Damage +Acc 		Attack Vitals
Cone +DoT 		Sweep
PBAoE +Knockdown
DualBlades LightOpening.png Nimble Slash 1 Melee, Minor Damage (Lethal). Begin Begin    
DualBlades ModerateOpening.png Power Slice 1 Melee, Moderate Damage(Lethal).       Continue
DualBlades ModerateBridge.png Ablating Strike 2 Melee, Moderate Damage (Lethal), Foe -Defense. Continue Continue Begin  
DualBlades AoEBridge.png Typhoon's Edge 6 Point Blank Area of Effect Melee, Moderate Damage (Lethal). Finish     Finish
DualBlades FollowUp.png Blinding Feint 8 Melee, Moderate Damage (Lethal) Self +Damage +Accuracy.   Finish    
DualBlades Taunt.png Confront 12 Ranged, Foe Taunt        
DualBlades Special1.png Vengeful Slice 18 Melee, Moderate Damage(Lethal), Foe Knockdown.     Finish  
DualBlades Special2.png Sweeping Strike 26 Melee (Cone), Superior Damage (Lethal).     Continue  
DualBlades HighLow.png One Thousand Cuts 32 Melee (Cone), Superior Damage (Lethal).       Begin

GreyDog's out-of-his-gourd idea

This is a tricky concept to get across. Personally, I find the Power Name/Icon confusing, in isolation. They only way I really get a sense of a power is seeing it in the context of the whole powerset. So, an ideal chart for me would look something like this... --Greydog

Powers Weaken Empower Attack Vitals Sweep
DualBlades LightOpening.png Nimble Slash 1 1
DualBlades ModerateOpening.png Power Slice 2
DualBlades ModerateBridge.png Ablating Strike 2 2 1
DualBlades AoEBridge.png Typhoon's Edge 3 3
DualBlades FollowUp.png Blinding Feint 3
Confront
DualBlades Special1.png Vengeful Slice 2
DualBlades Special2.png Sweeping Strike 3
DualBlades HighLow.png One Thousand Cuts 1

I could be out of my gourd, however. Feel free to ignore my comment if I'm in the minority.--GreyDog 17:19, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

No no no, nothing is ignored if it gives someone a ridiculously brilliant idea. Observe: The Power Table section is supposed to give a concise yet meaningful list of powers. Your table could be tacked on to the end of each power table. --Konoko 20:02, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

Alternate presentation

Combined Combo Table

This seems reasonable, if hard to read. Perhaps seperate each combo into its own table? Or color each main rows alternately? -Pythe

Still hard to read with colors. Comments? -Pythe

While I like icons, I'd rather have the names there, but Tanker/Scrapper/Brute is a little too wide. --Konoko 20:12, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
I find this the easiest one to read and distinguish between Combo orders for the ATs, I'd re-arrange the Combo Names so they were alphabetical, but that's just me. --Mekk
I find this one the easiest to read as well. - Snorii 21:37, 20 November 2007 (EST)
I like this table (below). I also like the "Scrapper Alternate" above out of the three in the previous section. --Ti Taz 13:02, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
Combo Name Effect Attacks
Archetypeicon tanker.pngArchetypeicon scrapper.pngV archetypeicon brute.png V archetypeicon stalker.png
Empower Self +Damage +Acc (less than Build Up) DualBlades LightOpening.png Nimble Slash DualBlades BuildUp.png Build Up
DualBlades ModerateBridge.png Ablating Strike DualBlades AssassinBlades.png Assassin's Blades
DualBlades FollowUp.png Blinding Feint DualBlades Placate.png Placate
Weaken Foe -ToHit, -Def DualBlades LightOpening.png Nimble Slash DualBlades Special2.png Sweeping Strike
DualBlades ModerateBridge.png Ablating Strike DualBlades ModerateOpening.png Power Slice
DualBlades AoEBridge.png Typhoon's Edge DualBlades HighLow.png One Thousand Cuts
Attack Vitals Cone Minor Damage over Time(Lethal) DualBlades ModerateBridge.png Ablating Strike DualBlades ModerateOpening.png Power Slice
DualBlades Special1.png Vengeful Slice DualBlades LightOpening.png Nimble Slash
DualBlades Special2.png Sweeping Strike DualBlades Special1.png Vengeful Slice
Sweep PBAoE Damage(Lethal), Knockdown DualBlades HighLow.png One Thousand Cuts DualBlades BuildUp.png Build Up
DualBlades ModerateOpening.png Power Slice DualBlades AssassinBlades.png Assassin's Blades
DualBlades AoEBridge.png Typhoon's Edge DualBlades ModerateBridge.png Ablating Strike

Separate tables

I used class="wikitable" to get the general table formatting (thin borders, grey backgrounds on headers). Comments? Suggestions? --Konoko 02:00, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

Looks much better like this. I'm still questioning my use of colors in the tables. At the very least they ought to be changed to a paler hue, like the blue in the nav bar. Now to add a little more detail to the combo effects! -Pythe 14:42, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

I'm thinking about combining the combo attack tables... I'll throw an idea at the bottom here, after I sketch it out here... -Pythe 15:13, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

Brute, Tanker, Scrapper

Combo Name Empower Weaken Attack Vitals Sweep
Effect +Damage (Like Build Up) Enemy -ToHit, -Def Cone Minor Damage Over Time(Lethal) PBAoE Minor Damage(Lethal), Knockdown
Open DualBlades LightOpening.png Nimble Slash DualBlades LightOpening.png Nimble Slash DualBlades ModerateBridge.png Ablating Strike DualBlades HighLow.png One Thousand Cuts
Continue DualBlades ModerateBridge.png Ablating Strike DualBlades ModerateBridge.png Ablating Strike DualBlades Special1.png Vengeful Slice DualBlades ModerateOpening.png Power Slice
Finish DualBlades FollowUp.png Blinding Feint DualBlades AoEBridge.png Typhoon's Edge DualBlades Special2.png Sweeping Strike DualBlades HighLow.png Typhoon's Edge

Stalker

Combo Name Empower Weaken Attack Vitals Sweep
Effect +Damage (Like Build Up) Enemy -ToHit, -Def Cone Minor Damage Over Time(Lethal) PBAoE Minor Damage(Lethal), Knockdown
Open DualBlades BuildUp.png Build Up DualBlades Special2.png Sweeping Strike DualBlades ModerateOpening.png Power Slice DualBlades BuildUp.png Build Up
Continue DualBlades AssassinBlades.png Assassin's Blades DualBlades ModerateOpening.png Power Slice DualBlades LightOpening.png Nimble Slash DualBlades AssassinBlades.png Assassin's Blades
Finish DualBlades Placate.png Placate DualBlades HighLow.png One Thousand Cuts DualBlades Special1.png Vengeful Slice DualBlades ModerateBridge.png Ablating Slice


Error in combo for Stalker?

I am running a DB/Willpower Stalker currently and am noticing that the Attack Vitals combo is Power Slice, Nimble Slash, and Vengeful Slice, while listed here as beginning with Ablating Strike. --??

O RLY? No wonder my Attack Vitals combo doesn't work. I'd have figured this out if I hadn't wasted all my vetspecs. Smilies frown.gif Fix it (or I will someday) --Konoko
Ok, fixed... Shall I do the main page? --Omnedon 02:23, 20 November 2007 (EST)
Not yet, leave the article as it is for now. I'm still fleshing out the other tables. Keep this table up-to-date though, then we can update the article all at once when I11 goes live. --Konoko 21:30, 20 November 2007 (EST)
Konoko, are you planning to update these now that I11 is out? I was getting rather confused looking things up in Mids Hero Designer, looking at this page, and reading the little info boxes on my DB/Nin stalker. –- Ti Taz 12:45, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Combo terms

We need to make sure the same term is used every time that a term is used. Discuss! --Konoko 21:44, 20 November 2007 (EST)

Term Alt Meaning
Opener Open, Begin, start Power that open/begins/is-the-start of a combo
Bridge Continue, mid Power that continues a combo
Finisher End, Finish Power that ends/completes a combo
Orange Combo Indicator Circle Orange Circle, duck l'orange Indicator that appears on a power (in the power tray) to indicate which power is next in a combo.
I say we go with: Opener, Bridge, Finisher. The complete and verbose description for the circle would be "Orange Combo Indicator Circle," or "Orange Circle" for short.--GreyDog 10:24, 21 November 2007 (EST)
Right-o --Konoko
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