Paragon Wiki Archive talk:General disclaimer

Chopped off

How bizarre. I didn't touch anything except the top section when I updated the copyrights. Titan Network did have a brief slowdown while the page was saving so it might have been lost in there. I have no idea! lol ~ AGGE talk/cons 21:49, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Page needs a rewrite?

Is this exact language required by license with NCSoft? If not, the page could use some expert help.

Short version: To a layperson, the page may look like it's simply repeating unchallenged facts, but in legalese, the statements have a specific function known as legal notice, which fansites aren't authorized to perform. In legalese, truth is not always a defense!

Anyway, just three problems with the page: 1) it's not a disclaimer, so the title is incorrect, 2) Paragon Wiki hasn't done the due diligence to be able to say what NCSoft does or doesn't own, and 3) as mentioned above, Paragon Wiki doesn't have authority to give legal notice on NCSoft's behalf, such as to say which rights NCSoft does or does not seek to enforce. Almost every fansite falls into the same traps, mostly by cut-and-pasting some other website's notices, mistakenly believing it's okay to repeat them.

Paragon Wiki's CYA should be that of a potential copyright defendant, different from the CYA of a potential copyright plaintiff (like NCSoft). So if there must be a CYA page, it should be a rationale for Paragon Wiki's use of third party copyrighted content. Mentioning the game's user agreement, which grants permission for non-commercial use of game content, and mentioning Paragon Wiki's non-commercial status, would be good. Since some editors may not be subject to the game's user agreement, a fair use assertion would be good. Plus of course the licensing (GNU FDL) for content not encumbered by third parties' rights.

I'll see if I can get a draft done later tonight. Rigel Kent 00:11, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Posted below is the City of Heroes Fan Site Agreement. It's available for download at http://ftp.coh.com contained within CoH_Fansite_Kit.zip. The ZIP file was last updated November 2005. To the best of my knowledge, this is still current, but if anyone knows of an updated policy, do please let us know here.

CITY OF HEROES FAN SITE AGREEMENT

PLEASE READ CAREFULLY: THIS FAN SITE USER LICENSE (“LICENSE”) IS A LEGAL AND BINDING AGREEMENT BETWEEN YOU AND/OR YOUR ORGANIZATION (“YOU”), AND NC INTERACTIVE, INC., ITS SUBSIDIARIES, AFFILIATES, AND LICENSORS (COLLECTIVELY, “NCSOFT”). BY INDICATING YOUR ACCEPTANCE, YOU ACCEPT ALL THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT. YOUR USE OF ANY GAME MATERIALS AND YOUR DEVELOPMENT AND PROVISION OF A FAN SITE ARE SUBJECT TO THIS AGREEMENT.

Subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement, NCsoft grants you the revocable permission to create a City of Heroes Fan Site that is related to promoting the online game currently entitled “City of Heroes” (the “Game”), solely for your personal noncommercial use on a Fan Site. Fan Site” shall mean a personal, noncommercial web site, created by you, that is freely accessible to the public and dedicated to promoting the Game. This license allows you to reference the Game, conduct electronic correspondence with players of the Game, and in general, reference the ideas, experiences, and characters contained in the Game. In addition, you may capture graphics, logos, art, and the characters’ likenesses (the “Materials”) for use only on your Fan Site. Use of any NCsoft trademarks shall be in strict accordance with NCsoft’s trademark usage guidelines. If you post Materials on your Fan Site, you must also post the following notice on your Fan Site on the same web page(s) as any of the Materials: “City of Heroes game content and materials are trademarks and copyrights of NCsoft Corporation and its Licensors and used with permission. All rights reserved.” You will not represent that your Fan Site is endorsed or approved by NCsoft or that any content on your Fan Site is endorsed or approved by NCsoft. Your participation in creating a City of Heroes Fan Site is purely voluntary. You acknowledge and agree that you will not receive any compensation of any kind from NCsoft for your City of Heroes Fan Site or for your participation as a City of Heroes Fan Site provider. You acknowledge that you may stop providing content for your City of Heroes Fan Site at any time that you desire. You agree to provide NCsoft with the web address of your Fan Site so that NCsoft may inspect your site and verify compliance with this Agreement from time-to-time.

NCsoft and its licensors own all of the right, title and interest in and to the Game. Your right to reference the Game is limited to the license grant above, and you may not otherwise copy, display, perform, publish, or use any of the Game elements. You may not modify, reverse engineer, disassemble, create derivative works from, license, transfer, distribute, or sell any materials from the Game, or use the Game to further any commercial or unlawful purpose. Without limiting the foregoing, you may not use your references to the Game to sell advertising, to promote another product or business, or on any site that operates or promotes a server emulator. You may not make materials from the Game available by download from your City of Heroes Fan Site (without prior written permission of NCsoft).

NCsoft retains the right, at NCsoft’s sole discretion, to terminate and revoke this Agreement and all rights to the licensed Materials and the Game at any time, for any reason. You shall not put any inappropriate materials on the Fan Site. Some materials that NCsoft considers inappropriate for a City of Heroes Fan Site include, but shall not be limited to:

A. Hate material, including without limitation, defamatory, abusive, racially or ethnically offensive imagery, content or language;

B. Pornography or obscene or indecent material;

C. Overt Propaganda; The site cannot have an obvious political agenda, or one that has blatant messaging of slogans and attacks on religions, ethnic groups, or personalities, or that would otherwise tarnish NCsoft’s reputation. NCsoft will not link into sites that deliberately exclude large portions of the potential audience.

D. Commercial sites. Selling banner ads or offering personal creative materials is permitted. However, commercial sites whose sole and/or primary reason for existing is to serve as a marketing vehicle for a company or product shall not be permitted.

E. Use of unauthorized copyrighted materials (without prior permission from the owner of such material).

When your City of Heroes Fan Site interacts with players in the Game, please adhere to the following guidelines:

Never ask for a player’s personal password or username.

Never ask for a player’s credit card information.

Never pretend you are a paid employee of the game, and never ask to meet players in person.

Do not make any material available for download or distribution that you know (or should know) contains any computer virus of any kind.

You represent and warrant that (a) you have the right and ability to enter into this Agreement, (b) you will not, and the use of the Fan Site will not, infringe or misappropriate the intellectual property rights of NCsoft or any third party, (c) the Fan Site will not misrepresent the Game or tarnish the reputation or goodwill of NCsoft, and (d) you will comply with the Federal COPPA standards for websites directed to children under the age of thirteen (13). Information about COPPA and requirements for compliance can be found on the FTC website at http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/edcams/kidzprivacy/index.html . You agree to indemnify and hold harmless NCsoft for any claims related to your Fan Site or breach of the foregoing representations and warranties. ALL MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED TO YOU BY NCSOFT “AS IS” WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND. NCSOFT SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, CONSEQUENTIAL, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, OR INDIRECT DAMAGES OF ANY KIND, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION LOST PROFITS, EVEN IF NCSOFT KNEW OR SHOULD HAVE KNOWN OF SUCH POTENTIAL LIABILITY.

ANY USE YOU CHOOSE TO MAKE OF THESE MATERIALS IS UNDERTAKEN BY YOU ENTIRELY AT YOUR OWN RISK. NCSOFT DOES NOT WARRANT THAT THESE MATERIALS WILL NOT CAUSE DAMAGE TO YOUR COMPUTER SYSTEM, NETWORK, SOFTWARE OR OTHER TECHNOLOGY.

NCSOFT WILL NOT PROVIDE SUPPORT FOR THESE MATERIALS. PLEASE DO NOT CALL OR SEND EMAIL TO CUSTOMER SUPPORT REGARDING THESE MATERIALS, AS NCSOFT WILL NOT BE ABLE TO ANSWER THESE INQUIRIES.

NCSOFT RESERVES THE RIGHT TO DISCONTINUE THE AVAILABILITY OF THESE MATERIALS, OR MODIFY THEM, AT ANY TIME, WITHOUT OBLIGATION TO ANYONE.

You must be at least 18 years old to accept this Agreement. This License is governed by Texas law (without regard to conflicts of law), and is the entire agreement between NCsoft and you regarding the subject matter herein.

The only thing I see up there (and someone correct me if I missed something) is the statement that any page using NCsoft material must bear the statment "City of Heroes game content and materials are trademarks and copyrights of NCsoft Corporation and its Licensors and used with permission. All rights reserved."

That being said, what we may actually need is to modify the footer at the bottom of the page with the policy links to specifically include that statement in order to be compliant with the Fan Site Agreement. --Eabrace 00:36, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

I don't need to agree to that policy to make use of City of Heroes material, and neither does any fan site. The user agreement already grants that license, and there's also fair use to fall back on. If this site has voluntarily chosen, for whatever reason, the most restrictive out of three use justifications, then I'm stuck and I have to respect that. (Though you should fire your lawyer. ;)) I note that the language on the page does not match the language of the fan site agreement, though; it's quite a bit broader, quite a bit out of date, and quite a bit incorrect. Rigel Kent 01:21, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

I want to point out that Rugiel has attempted to over-legalize something that doesn't really need to be before, and therefore IMO should be taken with a grain of salt. I personally don't think we need to change the title of the page, nor any of the contents, because the only thing that's necessary is to give credit where it's due, and that's been done.

-- Agge _(talk) 03:47, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

The page does not merely give credit where it's due. It is packed full of legalese already, setting forth a dual free/non-free intellectual property licensing scheme. I can think of no fairer game for criticism on legal grounds than a complex legal document like this.

In any case, I hope my draft comes out more precise but no more complex than the current document, lest I be accused of complicating something already rather convoluted. Rigel Kent 01:21, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Draft's in my userspace: User:Rigel Kent/Legal information. Sorry about the length; I'd hoped it would be much shorter. Rigel Kent 02:31, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

So I finally got around to reading the fan site licenses. It's semi-clear that the licenses require trademark notices to be placed on pages with "Materials", but it's unclear whether "Materials" means "graphics, logos, art, and the characters’ likenesses" (as implied near the top of the license) or the contents of the zip file (as implied near the bottom). In either case, it would appear that Eabrace is correct and the trademark notices might belong on pages with images on them, but aren't needed on this page (no images). Rigel Kent 08:55, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

P.S. I've been unable to locate the "trademark usage guidelines" referenced by the license. Rigel Kent 09:00, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

It's been a month. Any other ideas to improve this page? If not, some sort of combination of Eabrace's suggestion and my own seems like the way to go. Rigel Kent 23:37, 2 September 2009 (UTC)